Building Foundational Relationships in Native American & Tribal Communities

Many barriers to employment exist for millions of Americans, and one subset remains vastly underserved – Native American veterans and tribal communities. Tune in as Christopher Key from Hesperus shares more insight into cultural differences, as well as how Hesperus is investing in the next generation of Native American and Alaska Native leadership, and creating pathways to education and employment through training, workforce development, and technology.

Transcript

Candee Chambers:

Get ready, the DE Talk Podcast starts now, insightful conversations and dialogue, helping you put the human factor back in HR.

Access and equity are at the core of DirectEmployers, and we often talk about barriers to employment that exist for millions of Americans across the nation. While individuals with disabilities are often a common focus in that conversation one subset remains vastly underserved, Native American veterans and tribal communities.

How can we change the employment outcome for these individuals and create resources and programs that further enrich education and provide stable employment for Native American veteran families and tribal community. Explore how Hesperus is investing in the next generation of Native American and Alaska Native leadership, and creating pathways to education and employment through training, workforce development, and technology.

Mikey Meagher:

Well, welcome to the DE Podcast, I'm Mikey Meagher, the Manager of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Strategies at DirectEmployers. This month I am welcoming Mr. Wonderful himself, Chris Key, co-founder of Hesperus, a nonprofit organization dedicated to investing in the next generation of Native American and Alaskan Native leadership.

So, on the heels of Native American Heritage Month we're celebrating the intersectionality of not only Native Americans and tribal communities but also the programs and resources that Hesperus has brought to the underserved communities of Native American veterans.

But, not to give away too much yet, Chris, thank you so much for joining us today. So glad I've had the opportunity to meet with you the last couple months, and definitely the Hesperus forum in DC was amazing. Learned a lot and took away a lot of things from there as well. But, before we get into it do you want to just give a little bit of a background on yourself and how you found Hesperus?

Christopher Key:

Sure. First I want to say thank you very much for inviting me to participate on this podcast. I'm really happy to be a part of this and sharing some information and some insight. But back to me, my name is Christopher Key, I'm a member of the San Carlos Apache Tribe. I have a formal background in electrical engineering and in business.

I've been working with Hesperus for almost I guess three or four years, really. And I'm located here in Arizona, but I also vacillate between San Diego and Arizona, just because of what I do for Hesperus.

Mikey Meagher:

Okay, all right, and to find out in DC, I didn't realize that you performed some of the military ceremonies for those Native American veterans as an elder. That was really cool to figure that out. I never knew you did that.

Christopher Key:

Yeah, it was kind of on the fly. Somebody had mentioned it, my family is heavily related to the Native American culture, especially with my grandmother was a medicine woman, my grandfather was a medicine man. We come from holy ground, so all that knowledge was passed on to me. So somebody asked me if I would be open to preside over the Eagle Feather Ceremony at West Point.

And I was floored because a few things, first and foremost that West Point sought me out and invited me, and secondly the sheer fact that an institution like West Point has opened up their gates and the knowledge that they have, just by virtue of their historical perspective, the opportunity to recognize Native Americans in that particular vein.

Mikey Meagher:

Yeah, and the other cool link to that too, one of the things, again from the forum, that kind of stuck out to me, obviously with celebrating veterans this month and Native American heritage communities, the Navajo code talkers, could you talk a little bit about that? Because I did not know about this, and I just think for those that don't know, that it's such a cool, cool thing that happened in our history, that I'm a little ashamed to say I wasn't aware of.

But can you give a little bit of a background on that? I think it's a good example of how both communities between veterans and Native Americans were able to, back to World War Two and working together, and why this is so important.

Christopher Key:

Absolutely. And a lot of people don't really... Not really understand, but they don't know that the Native American community has really been in every military campaign prior to this place being a country and a nation. And so, more particular, code talkers, that began during World War One, and throughout World War Two.

And the 32, there are 32 tribal nations that participated in this campaign. And a lot of people just recognized, or they immediately focus on the Navajo Nation, which is fine, but rarely take note that there were the other 33 or 32 tribal nations that were also involved in this process.

They contributed in a sense that it was a code that was unbroken by the Japanese military. And it was utilized even past World War Two for a little bit. So yeah, those are the contributions that Native Americans have contributed to the country. And more importantly, they do it honorably and do it for respect for their elders and their ancestors in the communities that they are a part of.

Mikey Meagher:

Okay, and a little bit, in going with that too, the two gentlemen who had a session at the Hesperus forum talked a lot about their experience in the military and how they were treated when they got back. And huge difference from how they were treated, in a good way, positive way it seems, than how maybe their people before them were able to come home. It wasn't as ceremonial. Is that something that you directly ever experienced within your tribe with knowing anybody who was a veteran?

Christopher Key:

Yeah, unfortunately that representation is absolutely spot on. John Bailin and his brother Justin Bailin, they are military combat veterans. They were in the marines, and their experience was vastly different from individuals who served in the Vietnam War.

And I don't know if you were there at the forum, but I had the opportunity to bring up one of our other panelists, she brought her father to DC, which...

Mikey Meagher:

Yes.

Christopher Key:

... was his first time in DC. But he served in the Vietnam war, and he gave reference to his reception and his homecoming was vastly different from John and Justin. And I think a lot of the... It was just a different time, a different period in history and there were a lot of things that were going on in addition to the war that set a fire ablaze, the mentality of veterans who served in that particular campaign.

So, yeah, and I do have relatives who have served in Vietnam, and also in Korea and in both wars Afghanistan and the Iraqi War.

Mikey Meagher:

Oh wow. Yeah, I've got to say, when his daughter, the Vietnam veteran who was being introduced at the forum, I don't know that there was a dry eye, honestly, in that room. Her just beaming with excitement and being so proud of her dad. And just his emotions of being in DC for the first time and going to see a lot of that stuff was absolutely incredible. Thank you for getting them there and allowing him to have that experience.

Christopher Key:

Yeah, I was really humbled, just by recognizing and having him there and giving him the time to share his story. And you're absolutely correct, Antoinette Thompson is the artist who was a part of the presentation, the artist presentation, her father Anthony was the gentleman we're speaking of, and it was a powerful moment, but there were also other powerful moments.

Because I go back to the point that a lot of the people that we sponsored to DC, it was their first time there, and to understand the significance that that trip made at that point, it was really powerful, it was emotional, and I walk away from it thinking this is what this is all about. This is what Hesperus is all about. To give and afford others the opportunity to do things and empower them so that they can create more agency.

And not only that, just to demonstrate a positive role model in those relationships that they carry back to the community.

Mikey Meagher:

Yeah, and I was just going to lean into the question of what the motivation was behind forming Hesperus, but I think you kind of already answered that. Because I know Matt Brogdon also co-founder of Hesperus, both of you have such deep ties in some of the communities that you're in. So it's all encompassing, and the fact that you were able to find and bridge that gap, and it's happening so rapid and we can see it just from the time that I've spoken with you both, and learning about Hesperus myself, I'm just like, wow, it's moving so fast in all the right ways, all great ways.

So, what has been the biggest challenges with starting Hesperus? In terms of bridging the gap between the Native American veteran communities? Or have you not really found any?

Christopher Key:

I guess I wouldn't really call them challenges, they're just kind of hurdles. And those hurdles have been on both sides of the coin. And I kind of look at it from two perspectives. Given the opportunity that I've had working in mainstream and also being a member of the tribe and a part of the community and a stakeholder, I can kind of see things in a dual perspective.

So, on the corporate side, it's always been one that, okay, they don't really know, and this is kind of a broad statement, but there are a lot of individuals and people who really don't know what happens on a reservation, or for that matter what a reservation is.

So, it's that dialing into, okay, this is the structure, this is the overall way of life on a reservation. And then on the flip side, tribal members living in all communities, they reside, and they completely are insular, and a lot of them don't leave the reservation except to go grocery shopping or do their business adjacent to who are located next to the reservation.

So, it's that feeling of kind of sharing experiences and providing moments where there's teaching moments and there's a lot of ahas. Especially in working with our partners. Because they have a level of understanding and commitment that they really want to provide a lot of resources and information because they understand the need.

And then on the tribal side it's just the perspective of trust. Because there's a lot of trust factors that preclude any kind of relationships that tribal governments and tribal entities have with the outside community. And it goes back to the historical perspective. So, those are the things that I feel are just hurdles. And you mentioned it, things have been happening really quickly.

You and I, we first, with DE, and I might say that DE and NASWA were the two organizations that really took an immediate understanding to the value of what we were trying to do. And for that we really are really appreciate that.

So, it's working and taking it step by step, but overall the process has been quite fast. I mean sometimes I wake up and think, "Wow, I'm thankful for where we're at." And the work is something that I look forward to and it's something that I feel is necessary, but I really like doing it.

I really have that understanding now that if you're passionate about something and you do something then it really overwhelms you, has benefits for everybody.

Mikey Meagher:

Yes, it does. And to bring up that point, one of the things that you had mentioned that struck me at the forum when you opened it up, was saying that Native Americans is the cornerstone of diversity. And I immediately wrote that down, because I just thought it was so profound. And just the way you said it, it had passion and trust behind that. So can you explain your idea of Native American culture being the cornerstone of diversity?

Christopher Key:

Yeah, I'll give you an example. I mentioned in the opening monologue that if you look at a powwow, if you take any kind of powwow, and you see the many dancers on the powwow floor, the colors that are on everybody's regalia is a representation of everybody there. Because we have inter-tribal relationships. I have cousins who are part Sioux, some Canadians, some Navajos, and then I also have my aunt who is intermarried to an African American.

So I have African American in our family tree, as well as Latin. So it's an abundance of cultures and overall it's a community. And what community is is family. And like the medicine, where it's represented by the color white, yellow, red, and black. And it just kind of represents the colorful exchanges of community and family.

We have two spirited people. Just you go through any community and that's what you see. There's a tide and it radiates out. And it's easier to identify, because going back to the point that most reservations are insular, we're pretty much alone and to ourselves, but that doesn't mean that we don't venture out.

So, yeah, collectively it's a broad perspective of diversity, and inclusion. Because if you have diversity you have to have inclusion. And that's where we invite people in and they become family.

Mikey Meagher:

Yes, and I definitely witnessed that firsthand in DC. So that was so much fun to see, and then dinner was fun too. I got to meet a lot of great people. To piggyback off of that, one of the things I didn't realize either, and I'm sure this isn't the only tribe, but the one that was used as an example, the Navajo Tribe recognizes multiple gender identities. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Christopher Key:

Yeah, and that goes back to the creation story. There are a number of tribal communities that recognize and appreciate and really they don't distinguish any differently from individuals who are either two spirited or... Nothing is based upon gender, it's all based upon spirit. So we don't look at it in that vein at all.

And that, again, is something that is a little more definitive outside a reservation. And that's why, I think, when I made that comparison in that monologue, that a lot of people, either they don't know what they don't know, but that's part of sharing and learning and creating a peace within the group that we're with.

Mikey Meagher:

Yeah, and that was just one... Like you were saying in the monologue, one day, one example for all the employers listening to this. What a huge opportunity it would be to have employers go out to different tribes and reservations and really learn about the culture and start building that trust.

And really educating themselves on what it is and what it means, really, to have a Native American employee in their company, and how to help serve them so that they're successful. Because it's more than just interviewing for a job and getting the position. It's, what is it beyond that? What is it beyond the person that you're sitting across from?

Have you had, I guess I could say like a success story of companies that have come into different tribes or reservations that have built that trust? And their success rates with that?

Christopher Key:

Well, that's becoming more prevalent, and that is probably one of the aspects that Hesperus focuses on. Because up until this point we haven't really had any interaction or involvement from either side, because, for instance, the corporate community, and entities outside the reservation, they don't know how to access, because the... And rightly so, because the people on the reservation kind of tend to keep to themselves, so there's been kind of a divide.

But not a divide that prevents one another from coming together, it's just nobody has ever thought, "How do I engage this community?" And now you begin to see a lot more directive goals toward accessing the community, with the understanding that you have to go where the need is in. And quite frankly, that is one of the things when I do recruiting and when I did recruiting in the corporate community, they would say, "Okay, one of the objectives is we need to be more diverse, or we'd like to increase the pool of Native Americans in our organization."

Well, there's a lot of things that, at that point in time, that needed to be done prior to us going out there and throwing out the table and saying, "Okay, we want to recruit you, how do you..." Just going through the steps. It has to be an investment, and the investment has to be first and foremost, and I would say this to the people I was reporting to, in terms of when I was recruiting there.

What is the expectation? Because quite frankly, you have to know a little bit about the communities that you're going into, and understanding what their expectations are and understand there are a lot of limitations when you go into a Native American community, just by virtue of their socioeconomical makeup. But that doesn't mean that they're any less valuable in terms of employment.

One of the things that I always spoke of is that in order to find Native Americans you have to understand where they're at. And everybody would always say, "Well, we don't know where to find them." Well, my immediate response was, at that point, and there's 545 recognized tribes across the country. All you need to do is just do a little bit of research and then that's where you go.

So, the immediate recruiting aspect of everything is that you've got to go beyond where the conventional places that you do recruit, and go into the community. And by doing so you set up a relationship, a rapport, and a trust factor that begins at that point, and they have a better understanding.

So, our partners who are working right now with Native American community, it's been overall a success, only because both sides are beginning to understand the value, and sharing the experiences, and coming together, and overall working toward one particular goal, which is creating a lot of opportunities for people on both sides.

Mikey Meagher:

Yeah, and one of the big things too is getting technology into these rural tribal communities. So do you think... Maybe if there's an employer out there that's not really sure how to get involved, or start gaining that trust, you think working, or donating some of their time or services or equipment or anything like that. Is that a way that would be receptive in building trust in those communities? If that employer has the ability to do so?

Christopher Key:

Absolutely. And again, the priority is what are the expectations. And how do those expectations align with the expectations of the community. There's a certain investment. Everybody, in terms of technology, if anything the pandemic has shown that remote working is a possibility. And that's a fluid situation and it also helps in cultural preservation, because you might have individuals from the community who they can't drive back and forth two hours a day to get to work, so four hours each day, so the impact of working remotely is substantial.

So, you just have to really figure out what the needs are, what the expectations are, and try to come together and figure out a way to navigate, so that the goal is finite, but it also I inclusive of everything that you're trying to do.

Mikey Meagher:

Yeah, and I would love to challenge... I don't want to say challenge, but really put it out there for employers, now we've opened up a big can of worms for you, Chris, because I'm hoping now you're going to get an influx of people reaching out, because you're the guy with the answers, and I think being able to even bridge the gap with employers and you and possibly studying up tribal visits and starting to build that trust would be such a huge learning experience on both sides. I just want you to be ready for that.

Christopher Key:

Oh, I'm willing and able. And I see it as a great prospect and it's really a potential for everybody involved.

Mikey Meagher:

Definitely it's huge, and I would love that opportunity myself. Like I said, just that one day I was by the end of it just like, "Whoa, what just happened?" But in a good way, because there was just so much new information I didn't know about and hadn't heard. And I've known you now for five years? So you're still learning new things. Can you talk about the Summit Program?

Christopher Key:

Sure. Sure. Yeah, that's our original program that we created. And the Summit Program is a certification program for individuals who are separating from the military. And we provide them certification. And it's a process that they go through and they get either their Net+, A+, or Sec+. And then the certification provides them to be more marketable, in a sense, to our partners who are sponsors and partners and funders for the program.

And along with that, the individuals who are participating in Summit are also provided the opportunity to work with mentors within our partnerships and our sponsors. So they get professional development, learning ways to improve their skillsets, and then our partners have first dibs on onboarding these individuals. So, that can inroads into the community, it also recognizes the value of veterans as a whole. And it works out for both sides.

Mikey Meagher:

Awesome. And with that, how many Native American veterans are currently enrolled in that?

Christopher Key:

This is our first cohort, we'll begin in a couple weeks, and we have approximately, I think it was 11 or 12.

Mikey Meagher:

Nice.

Christopher Key:

Yeah, we're really psyched about that.

Mikey Meagher:

Yeah, you're going to have to keep me updated on that, that's huge.

Christopher Key:

It's modeled after something I began back when I started my professional career at NASA. It's better to start with numbers that are controllable, because obviously if you have a huge, huge group then it's hard to meet the demands and needs of everyone involved. Especially if their first time in a curriculum that is really concentrated on time.

Mikey Meagher:

Yeah.

Christopher Key:

The thing about Summit is when you have individuals who separate from the military, it's a nontraditional educational environment that they're speaking. Because they're speaking of, for instance, if I'm a 20, 24, 25 year old, the last thing I really want to do is be melted into a classroom with a younger group. The dynamics just won't work. So this works really well, it creates a lot of cohesiveness. Because you have veterans who have a shared wealth in knowledge, and they have a wealth that they can fall back on.

So veterans as a whole I find out, I'm learning more and more too, they speak a different language, and a language that is both cohesive and inclusive. And it's overwhelmingly just something that it really parallels a lot of the dynamics that you see on Native American community. So I think that's why I feel so attached to it.

Mikey Meagher:

Yeah, and when you're in an environment like that too, where you know the people next to you are probably thinking the same things, they've gone through the same thing, it's much easier and less, I think, anxiety-ridden, to open your mind to learning. And not feeling the angst of like you don't belong. That's something hard to shake, I think, when you're in that type of environment. So it shuts you down a little bit, and able to learn those different skillsets.

I think that's a great example, as you said, it's small, it's intimate, and they need that attention, in a sense. It's kind of like maybe going to boot camp. It's hard, because all the focus is on you. But it's also successful. So it's kind of a cool dynamic between the two.

Christopher Key:

Absolutely. And again, it was modeled after the Sacred Mountains College Program, which I kind of got thrown into when I was at NASA, because I was working under the University Careers office, and the had three initiatives, they had the Hispanic initiative, they had the African American initiative, and then they had the Native American initiative.

And there was a scholarship program, and the Native American initiative was failing and it was really fledgling. And we had a new administrator come in and she said, "Well, you're from the reservation." I said, "Yeah." "All right, you be the manager, this is what's happening. It's fledgling, we're having people fall out." It just came down to they were a square hole and a round peg, they were trying to make something.

And it wasn't that we had to overwhelmingly retool it and invent something new. We just modified what we had existing to meet the needs of the Native American population. And so quite frankly I said... Me being young, who I was, I'm like, "Let's model it after a six pack." Think of a six pack, six packs of Cokes, six pack of beers.

Your freshmen come in and you group them in a group of six their first year, the second year two groups of three, their junior year two by two, and by the time they're seniors their on their own. And by that time they will have acclimated to the environment such that they will be able to go on their own effectively and have that positive reinforcement.

So it's all about creating the environment that you have support systems and that you can recognize and feel safe in. And that's kind of what we've developed with, we took that approach with, Summit. And so, characteristically, we don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, we just want to be able to modify it.

Mikey Meagher:

Right, I love that. Because so often, just in general thinking about diversity programs, we get caught up in thinking too systematically in the sense of leaving human behavior out of it and just thinking along the lines of A then B then C, just kind of almost like this mathematical equation. But it's not how it goes. There's humanity involved, and personalities, and different things.

Just having to recognize how to help somebody along, each case is going to be individual, so I think and what you were saying is treating them like, they're coming in as freshmen, sophomores, it's an appropriate way to do that. Because some need that, some won't. So that dynamic is just really interesting. And I think you bring up a great point in saying that it has to be small at first.

Just like an employer starting out with a diversity program, you can't just go completely all in, because where do you measure from then? And how do you know where one area needs to grow? Where another doesn't? You don't want to spend too much time devoting resources in the wrong direction.

Christopher Key:

Absolutely. And I also especially point out that any organization within the organization itself there's a mass amount of resources if they have an ERG, and even if you have a Native American ERG that has only five individuals, that's five individuals that you didn't have if you didn't have a group.

And most of those individuals in that group are more than willing to see something, and be a part of something greater than themselves.

Mikey Meagher:

Yes. And I have seen that a lot lately too. And so I think all of that's headed in the right direction and I love it. In closing, I just want Matt Brogdon, co-founder, talk a little bit about his background too, if you don't mind, because I know he's just as much a part of this. And I really wanted this to be employer focused and Hesperus focused, but also really dive into different things about the culture of Native American communities.

Because from what I've learned I've just found it's so fascinating, and want to be able to share that knowledge as well and get it out there. But can you talk a little bit about how you and Matt came up with this idea? Because I know he's a veteran and you're in the Native American community, so just a little bit about both your backgrounds if you don't mind?

Christopher Key:

Sure. Sure. Well, Matt is an air force grad. He cross-commissioned into the army. And he came out and he had a plethora of experience with recruiting, and in that area was his focus. He has a huge, huge network. So, him and I actually got together over a couple IPAs and he was telling me about his experiences, and then I kind of focused in, I said, "You know what, I've done some recruiting for X, Y, and Z, because they've asked me to represent the Native American group, and so I did."

And then he was kind of surprised when I mentioned the Society for Women Engineers, NASBE. I guess I surprised him because telling him where I came from and what I did and being a tribal member and such, that maybe it was kind of a surprise to him. But we centered our experiences on hey, telling kind of like horror stories. And I had mentioned that one of the things that I felt that was necessary was more focus on the Native American communities. And that got him to thinking there's an opportunity there.

And through my experiences as a consultant going out on my own working with tribal communities, my lane was economic development, healthcare, and education. And whenever I would walk into a community I would always side-eye this one group, and they were underserved and overlooked, and that was the veterans.

And my father being a veteran I understood the value in coming from an organization where you're diamonds in the rough. Because the have the work ethic, the chain of command, the ability to vacillate between metropolitan cities and rural communities. They're an absolute asset, so to speak.

So I told him, I said, "This is fundamentally an area that you know, because you're a veteran, and because of your network and my ability to help navigate the process..." That kind of thing. All of that kind of fell together. And one of the things about Matt is that I told him at the beginning, I said, "The journey you're about to take is going to be, understandably, overwhelming for you, but whatever you need, or if I can provide you with any kind of guidance you let me know."

And he took to the mission like a duck to water. To me it was really emotional too. Because when I brought him to my community, my relatives brought him into the family, and to the point where they asked him to be a part of a ceremony. And I was just kind of taken back.

Mikey Meagher:

Wow.

Christopher Key:

Yeah, and what was even more surprising was his son was also invited, but he was also invited to participate as one of the dancers. So, it really fosters a lot of emotions, it was genuine, it was sincere, and it was something that his son took back, and of course Matt took back with him too.

And the thing about what we're doing and where we're at right now is that because there's such a need to help and provide opportunity within this community, we find ourselves kind of in an area, in a space where we're trying to cultivate with our partnerships, organizations who want to be a part of this, and they recognize the value and importance, and it aligns with what their mission is.

So that, in a sense, is how we got the ball rolling. Organizations like DirectEmployers and NASWA, you two were the first to understand the relevance of what we were trying to do. And going back to my point, we're very thankful for that.

Mikey Meagher:

Oh, always. I think the key point in that is all good things happen over some IPAs, right?

Christopher Key:

Absolutely. You can't go wrong with that.

Mikey Meagher:

No, but thank you so much for that. We, as a company, DirectEmployers, and I know NASWA too with Lori, we're just so thrilled to be a part of this experience and able to support in any way possible. Like I said, we've been working together for a while, and we've been able to really help each other out and make a lot of those great connections. So, really thankful for that. And to finish this podcast off, we typically do a little rapid fire question session, if you will.

Christopher Key:

Yeah, yeah.

Mikey Meagher:

Where we ask our guests five questions and say the first thing that comes to your mind. Are you ready?

Christopher Key:

Yeah.

Mikey Meagher:

All right. What was your last Google search?

Christopher Key:

That was earlier this morning, I was looking up the new map of broadband coverage. FCC put out a new map and I had heard prior to them publishing it that some of the data was questionable, but it looks pretty on spot when I'm looking at it, so...

Mikey Meagher:

Oh wow, okay. And I think I know the question, this next answer, but early bird or night owl?

Christopher Key:

Oh, I'm an early bird.

Mikey Meagher:

Yeah. I feel bad, I texted Chris, he's two hours behind me and not even realizing what time it was in the morning and he answered right back. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I hope I didn't wake you."

Christopher Key:

No, I'm an early bird. I find I do my best work in the morning, and on an empty stomach. And about 3:00 I start petering out, so yeah, I'm definitely a morning person.

Mikey Meagher:

Nice. Yeah. I think I'm the opposite in that. I'm definitely more of a night owl. My brain wakes up at about 11:00 AM. What do you wish you would have learned sooner?

Christopher Key:

To allow myself to have been more assertive and tenacious, and asking more about why. I kind of tend to coronate up being unconventional. And if I had done that a lot earlier I think, at least I tell myself, maybe some things could have been a little different, in terms of both my professional value and contribution, and also the organization.

So I kind of tell that to a lot of the kids that I work with, never be afraid to ask the question, you feel inhibited because either you feel it's a dumb question or some people are going like, "Why did you ask that question?" Every question is valuable, because if you don't know the answer then that's just the reason why it's so valuable.

So yeah, early on I wish I was a little more assertive and tenacious. And I'm more direct and deliberate now only because time is valuable.

Mikey Meagher:

No, oh, I love that. Because I actually feel the same way. There was a time where I just did not want to ask a question or speak up and I think that has to go back to maybe not always being a strong student, so there's some fears in that. But I think once you open yourself up and let yourself really be who you want to be and be inquisitive, it's such a fun experience, and I know you wish you said you just learned that sooner, but I can tell you, just from talking with you all of these years, I've learned so much from you. And you have so much value to add.

Christopher Key:

Thank you.

Mikey Meagher:

I think that's always been there for you.

Christopher Key:

I appreciate that. Thank you very much, Mikey.

Mikey Meagher:

Yeah, and we'll close out then, what is your favorite thing in your home office?

Christopher Key:

Well, looking around me, I surround myself with everything that I deem as just almost it speaks to me. And so the two things are I have pictures of my family, my folks, my granddaughter, my kids. And it just reminds me of why I sit at this desk and do the things I do.

And the other thing is I have pieces of art, and Jim Thorpe is who I idolize, because he did things because he wanted to do them, because he felt that this fun, I'm good at it. Just that was his whole process. And he's somebody I really look to, and I think he's an individual that expresses so much.

Mikey Meagher:

Very cool. That's awesome. And then you know, I really appreciate you taking the time with us today. And really getting to talk about and sharing not just about Native Americans and veterans, but also the culture and community of Native Americans. Your insights to both communities is just truly amazing. And I really want our listeners to be able to connect with you. So if you don't mind letting them know, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Christopher Key:

They can either email me at C-H-R-I-S-K at Hesper, and it's H-E-S-P-E-R .us. Or just ring me up.

Mikey Meagher:

Perfect, and we can also share your contact information as well.

Christopher Key:

Yeah.

Mikey Meagher:

Just to get an idea of... For those listening who can go ahead and reach out to you.

Christopher Key:

Absolutely. That's one of the things that's a root within the Native American culture, is being able to share and provide insight.

Mikey Meagher:

Yeah, definitely. And that is one thing I have definitely learned. And it's all about spreading the wealth, in terms of information, and as far as technology goes. So, I will share your information with anybody who wants it. You know, keep being a force of nature out there. You and Matt are doing great things, and just really appreciate the partnership and your time today. Please let us know if there's anything we can do moving forward.

Christopher Key:

Absolutely, and again, thank you Mikey, and give my regards to everyone there at DirectEmployers. We really appreciate and understand the value that you and everybody there bring to everyone out here. There's a lot to be done, but there are good people doing it within your organization. So, thank you.

Candee Chambers:

Thank you for tuning in for another episode of the DE Talk Podcast, stay connected with DirectEmployers on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn, and subscribe to our emails by visiting DirectEmployers.org/subscribe to receive notifications of new episodes, webinars, events, and more.